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This Black-bellied Whistling Duck was photographed on the SW Florida IPT with the Canon 800mm f/5.6L IS lens, the 1.4X III TC, and the EOS-1D Mark IV. ISO 400. Evaluative metering +1/3 stop: 1/1000 sec. at f/8. As you can plainly see, the 1.4X III TC works just fine with my 800 lens even though it is not a Series II super-telephoto lens. |
Series III EF Teleconverter Misconceptions…
I have received several e-mails recently asking if it is true that the new Canon Series III teleconverters do not work with most of the older lenses. To be frank, many folks have jumped to illogical conclusions. One guy even told me that I had stated that the new TCs would not work with most of the older lenses…. He has not responded to my request for a link….
Here are two examples:
While Canon’s web site lists many lenses as being ” compatible” with the new extenders, I am hearing that they may not work correctly with any but the very newest lenses (some of which are not actually out yet) and that they are not ” backward compatible.” Is there any truth to this? Allan, Tacoma WA
and:
Your blog and your e-mail reply to my original question said the new extenders would only work with the new II lenses. However the B+H and the Canon website
said they would work with the current “L” lenses. Canon customer service also said that everything would work with the current “L” lenses. Can you double-check with Canon Professional Services to find out if the new Series III extenders will work with the current “L” lenses. Thanks. Jerry
(Note: I never said anything like that :))
Here is my reply to each of the gentlemen above:
Everything that I wrote in #3 here on 16 NOV 2010 remains true to the best of my knowledge (but for the fact that the 1.4X III does not seem to be any sharper than the 1.4X II):
#3: What’s the real story with the two new Series III teleconverters?
Though nobody knows anything for sure as the neither the 1.4X TC III or the 2X TC III have been available for testing, here is the official wording.
“Extenders EF 1.4X III and EF 2X III have been newly developed in conjunction with the new Series II Image Stabilizer EF super-telephoto lenses. They can also be used with all previously announced extender-compatible EF lenses, but maximum performance is achieved when they are used with the new 300mm, 400mm, 500mm and 600mm lenses. The following sections provide more detailed information.”
The above from the info packed article by Chuck Westfall here.
I have learned that the two new TCs each have a micro-computer that will be able to communicate only with the four new super-telephoto lenses and that more accurate focus tracking (and possibly improved speed of initial focusing acquisition) will only be there with the four new lenses. There will be improvement in image quality with all of the older compatible lenses (again, see more in Chuck’s article here), but they will be marginal.
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This (baited) Brown Pelican image was created with the Canon 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II lens, the 2X III TC, and the EOS-1D Mark IV. ISO 400. Evaluative metering +1/3 stop: 1/2000 sec. at f/5.6. As you can plainly see here, the 2X III TC works just fine with my 70-200mm f/2.8 L IS II lens even though it is not a Series II super-telephoto lens. (Please do not be confused by the “II” in the name of the lens; it is not a super-telephoto :)) |
Then I wrote the following here on FEB 3, 2011:
Series III 2X TC Gut Reaction
I got to try my brand new Series III 2X today and my gut reaction is that it is quite a bit sharper than the old 2X, the EF Extender 2X II. I have not done any formal testing and will not be able to do any for several months, but the sharp images that I created today with the new, new combo were exceptionally sharp. This Anhinga seemed about ready to jump off of the screen of my HP laptop…..
There is a post in the Gear Forum at BPN with some examples of test images that show that the new 2X is a bit sharper than the old 2x. Scroll down here to see some test images.
I thought that I had written more recently on the blog on the compatibility of the Series III TCs with the older lenses but I realize now that I made those comments on two BPN threads… I wrote the following on a BPN thread that I started here.
Canon Series III EF Extenders (tele-converters to me :))
Below is an excerpt from Chuck Westfall’s article here. This is Chuck’s job title: Canon USA Advisor, Technical Information.
Extenders EF 1.4X III and EF 2X III
Extenders EF 1.4X III and EF 2X III have been newly developed in conjunction with the new Series II Image Stabilizer EF super-telephoto lenses. They can also be used with all previously announced extender-compatible EF lenses, but maximum performance is achieved when they are used with the new 300mm, 400mm, 500mm and 600mm lenses. The following sections provide more detailed information.
Image Quality
There are two significant improvements related to image quality when using the new Series III Extenders with the new IS II super-telephoto lenses: Anomalous dispersion glass elements are used in both new extenders to effectively reduce chromatic aberration to the greatest possible extent. This results in higher resolution and contrast, especially when the new extenders are used with IS II super-telephoto lenses.
Each Series III Extender features a newly developed microcomputer that increases AF precision when the extenders are used with an IS II super-telephoto lens. AF precision remains the same as the Series II Extenders when the Series III Extenders are used with earlier extender-compatible EF lenses.
As a result of these improvements, users of the new IS II super-telephoto lenses can expect significantly improved image quality when using Series III Extenders.
New Lens Coating
The front and rear elements of both Series III Extenders feature Canon’s new Fluorine anti-smear coating. The new coating is extremely oil-and water-repellent so that the front and rear elements can be cleaned without lens cleaning solvents using a soft, dry cloth.
Durability Improvements
The Series III Extenders are significantly more durable than earlier models due to the following improvements:
Seven screws instead of four are used to attach the lens mount to the body of the extender.
The lens lock pin and lens mount stopper pin have been improved for higher endurance.
The Series III Extenders are equivalent to the Series II Extenders in terms of weather resistance, with gaskets on both the front and rear lens mounts as well as the lens mount release switch.
The durability improvements of the Series III EF Extenders were made in response to feedback from professional photographers who use EF super-telephoto lenses and extenders regularly in their daily work.
Lens Compatibility
A list of compatible lenses for the new Series III Extenders can be seen by following the link to Chuck’s article at the start of this thread.
*AF may not focus accurately when a Series III EF Extender is combined with certain discontinued EF lenses marked with an asterisk in the table above. This problem can be resolved through AF Microadjustment on EOS cameras equipped with that feature. Manual focusing is recommended when using Series III EF Extenders with those particular lenses on compatible EOS bodies that do not have an AF Microadjustment function.
Camera Compatibility
The new Series III Extenders are compatible with all EOS Digital SLRs as well as the EOS-1V 35mm SLR. However, they cannot be used with other film-based EOS cameras because their signal relay system is not compatible with those models.
Other Operational Issues
The new Series III Extenders are basically the same as the Series II Extenders in terms of operation with compatible cameras. Here are a few bits of information related to usage and performance:
The Series III Extenders support autofocus when used with compatible master lenses and EOS cameras, with some restrictions as follows.
With most EOS cameras, the maximum aperture of the compatible EF lens/EF extender combination must be f/5.6 or larger to support autofocus. With EOS-1 class digital SLRs, autofocus with the center focusing point is supported for compatible EF lens/EF extender combinations with maximum apertures of f/8 or larger.
AF may not focus accurately when a Series III EF Extender is combined with certain discontinued EF lenses marked with an asterisk in the table above. This problem can be resolved through AF Microadjustment on EOS cameras equipped with that feature. Manual focusing is recommended when using Series III EF Extenders with those particular lenses on compatible EOS bodies that do not have an AF Microadjustment function.
The Extenders EF 2x III and EF 1.4X III make ideal companions to the new supertelephotos, adding up to twice the focal length of these, and many other Canon EF lenses without significant additional weight or cost.
Usage of Series III EF Extenders has no effect on AE (Automatic Exposure) or IS (Image Stabilizer) functionality.
Canon does not recommend stacking Series III EF Extenders because the extenders’ optical performance and AF precision cannot be guaranteed in such cases. Similarly, Canon does not recommend combining a Series III EF Extender with an extension tube because the extenders’ optical performance and AF precision cannot be guaranteed in such cases.
As with previous EF Extenders, usage of Series III EF Extenders lowers AF drive speed to improve AF performance. When Extender EF 1.4X III is used, AF drive speed is reduced by 50%. When Extender EF 2X III is used, AF drive speed is reduced by 75%. This may seem like a drawback, but in reality subject tracking performance remains quite high when Series III Extenders are used with IS II lenses. This is due to improvements in AF precision made possible by the new microcomputer in the extenders.
There are some interesting comments follow so do check out the thread thoroughly. Finally, there are lots of comments here that reflect some of the misconceptions that were present in your e-mails.
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This image of a young Dalmatian Pelican was created at Lake Kerkini, Greece, with the Canon 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II lens, the 1.4X III TC, and the EOS-1D Mark IV. ISO 400. Evaluative metering +1 stop: 1/320 sec. at f/10. As you can plainly see here, the 1.4X III TC works just fine with my 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II lens even though it is not a Series II super-telephoto. (Please do not be confused by the “II” at the end of the name of the lens; it is not a super-telephoto :)) |
Summing Up
The Series III TCs will work just fine with the 100-400 (central sensor only AF only with the pro bodies) and with the 400 DO (central sensor only AF with 2X III TC and the pro bodies) just as they work fine with my 800mm f/5.6 L IS lens (central sensor only AF only with the pro bodies) and with my newly beloved 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II lens. Do note that neither the 800 or the 70-200 II lens are Series II super-telephoto lenses… For the purposes of this discussion they must be classed as older compatible lenses.
Thus and most importantly, the micro-computers in the Series III TCs will not be able to communicate with any of the above lenses or with the older compatible lenses (like the 500mm & 600mm f/4L IS lenses) listed on Chuck Westfall’s chart here.
To repeat for the sake of clarity, the Series III TCs will work with all older compatible lenses.
The question that remains to be answered is, “How improved will AI Servo AF tracking accuracy (and possibly the speed of initial AF Acquisition) be when the Series III TCs are used with one of the new Series II super-telephoto lenses?” (Those lenses being the EF 300 & 400mm f/2.8L IS II lenses and the EF 500 & 600mm f/4L IS II lenses.)
Right now nobody has any clue as none of the new Series II super-telephoto lenses is yet available…
Shopper’s Guide
Below is a list of the gear that I used to create the images above. Thanks a stack to all who have used the Shopper’s Guide links to purchase their gear as a thank you for all the free information that we bring you on the Blog and in the Bulletins. Before you purchase anything be sure to check out the advice in our Shopper’s Guide.
Canon 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II lens. Man, I am loving this lens on my shoulder with the 2X III teleconverter. I also use it a lot–depending on the situation–with the 1.4X III TC.
Canon 800mm f/5.L IS lens. Right now this is my all time favorite super-telephoto lens.
Canon EF 1.4X III TC. This new TC is designed to work best with the new Series II super-telephoto lenses.
Canon EF 2XIII teleconverter. The new 2X III TC is a bit sharper than the previous version, the EF 2X II TC.
Canon EOS-1D Mark IV professional digital camera body. The very best professional digital camera body that I have ever used.
And from the BAA On-line Store:
Gitzo 3530 LS Tripod. This one will last you a lifetime.
Mongoose M3.6 Tripod Head. Right now this is the best tripod head around for use with lenses that weigh less than 9 pounds. For heavier lenses, check out the Wimberley V2 head.
Double Bubble Leve.l You will find one in my camera’s hot shoe whenever I am on a tripod and not using flash.
Delkin 32gb e-Film Pro Compact Flash Card. Fast and dependable
I have the Canon 7D and the 100-400 5.6 lens.. If I purchase the 2x converter would the images be sharp.? I have never used a tc so I was wondering before I buy.
You will need to focus manually. Even with the 1.4X. And thus you would need to be on a tripod with a good head like the Mongoose M3.6. In general, I would not recommend the use of a TC with that combo. If you insist, go with the 1.4X. If that, please use this link:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/732113-USA/Canon_4409B002_1_4x_EF_Extender_III.html/BI/6633/KBID/7226/kw/CA14XEF3/DFF/d10-v2-t1-xCA14XEF3
artie
You guys seem to keep missing the point. The reviewer used the fast 70-200mm f2.8. This really tells me little as the problem with the 2x converters is light! I want to know if the type 3 2x convertor will auto focus with my 5d mk 2 and the 100-400mm f4.5-6.. Would be nice if the reviewer would really test the item in question. I already own a 2x type II and know its issues. Slow auto focus is better than no auto focus! This review just says to me make sure I rent the type III when I rent one of the new ‘Super teles’ … Not so useful to me and is contrary to what the claims were from Canon…
Best regards
Ray
Hi Ray, You are a bit late to the party. Several comments:
#1: What guys are you referring to?
#2: Yes, I was using the 2XIII TC with the 70-200 II.
#3: What problem are you referring to when you say, “the problem with the 2x converters is light”?
#4: You want to know if the 2X III TC will autofocus with the 5D MII and the 100-400? All you needed to do was ask as your question has nothing to do with anything covered in the post. The answer has always been the same: no TC will focus with the 5D MII and a 100-400 as the 5D MIII focuses only to f/5.6. Has anyone ever told you different?
#5: You wrote, ” Would be nice if the reviewer would really test the item in question.” Your question make no sense to me. Please explain.
#6: The rest of your comments make zero sense to me. Contrary to what claims from Canon?
I use a 400 5.6 on my 7D as the 2nd camera and a 300 + TC’s on a 1D3 as the main – which is obvously a typical amateur compromise. I am plotting to get the new 600 ii as my next step. If doable, I will certainly opt for the Mk iii TC’s to max this new lens – but reality may force me to have a serious look at the 600 F4 is i if a number of them get on the market….. From what I can see, the new lens and TC’s are better but that does not make the previous lens anything less than a fantastic performer as it always has been. I think the main reason to go for the new version is the weight and hopefully better tracking with TC.
Hi Gerhard, Your current gear is quite capable of making great images in the right hands. Going to the 600 II would be quite a step up… If you drop back to the 600 IS you would not need the 1.4X III. As for this or that great lens there is no lens that will make a poor photographer into a good one or a good photographer into a great one….
The $64,000 question is. Will this make the best combination a 600 Mk II + the mk III TC’s the ‘ideal’ Birding lens setup, vs the say a 500 f4 & an 800 f5.6. Especially given the weight of the new 600 is only 3.92kg, almost the same as the old 500 f4.
Art, I’ve soaked up everything you wrote on the new 800, but I also notice you sold your 500 pending the new ones. Are you leaning in any particular direction right now with whats comming ?
This is a pending question for me, as I’m about to shell out for a long lens (Which was going to be the 800mm prob) to get into wildlife and bird photography (leaping in with both feet more precisley !)
Stunning photo’s as always. Whilst I’m new to register here, I’ve been a fan of your work for a long time.
You have not soaked up everything. You missed this.
In part I wrote, The new 600 weighs only 8.8 pounds, down 3 full pounds from the weight of the 11.8 pound 600mm f/4 L IS lens.
The 800mm f/5.6L IS lens weighs 9.9 pounds.
The relatively new 800mm f/5.6 lens was the first to offer the amazingly revolutionary 4-stop Image Stabilization system. All four of the Series II super-telephoto lenses offer 4-stop IS.
The new 600 IS II offers far greater versatility than the 800mm and offers a longer effective focal length with functioning central sensor-only autofocus (1200mm with the 2X for the 600 IS II as compared to 1120mm with the 1.4X for the 800). In addition, the new 600 weighs 1.1 pounds less than the 800.
It should be mentioned at this time that the Series III teleconverters will offer improved AI Servo tracking accuracy only with the Series II Super-telephoto lenses. The micro-chips in the Series III TCs cannot communicate with the older super-telephoto lenses. Do note however that early reports indicate that the EF 2X Extender III is noticeably sharper than the EF 2X Extender II.”
Check out a coming blog post for more on the new lenses….
I like the image of the young Dalmatian Pelican throwing back it’s head.
Artie and Louise, the real question is if the new 1.4 TC will be better than the previous version on the new 500/600. As Artie said here, the new TCs are designed for the new lenses and won’t show all their attributes with the old. I for one am hoping the chromatic abberation issues on the old 500+TC will be fixed as Canon claims. I do wonder why Canon brought out the new TCs so far in advance of bring out the new super telephotos. A lot of people are going to be posting the opinion that the new TCs aren’t worth the extra money having used them only on the old lenses.
Louise. 🙂
You are correct and it is re-stated in the post here, the 1.4X III is not noticeably sharper than the 1.4X II. Thanks for your order of the three spoonbill prints!
Bill, Good luck with your new gear. My feeling is that the 70-200 f/2.8 II with the 2X III TC is at least as sharp as the 400 DO. I hope to do some testing when I get home from Homer and the eagles 🙂
I may be a relative ‘beginner’ but I do not miss the instructions (4 degrees in my pocket). I remember VERY clearly that you said the 1.4X III does not seem to be clearer than the II. I took particular note of these things. Sorry guys!!!! My only quandry is which of all these pelican images do I buy first !!!
After seeing the sharp images you have been getting, I bought a 2x TC for my 70-200f2.8II. I calibrated the AF on that lens and my 500f4 using the LensAlign tool. Both were front focusing a bit with the new 2x and needed fine tuning but it was fairly minor, about 7 clicks. I have noticed improved sharpness on the zoom but did not notice much difference with the old 500mm but have not done a side by side because I bought this really for the new 600mm which I plan to get as soon as it is out. I sold my 400DO and 300f4. The zoom + 2xTCv3 is not as sharp as my very sharp 400DO lens was but I cannot travel with the 500 AND the 400DO so it is my trade off. The zoom + my “old” 1.4TC is wickedly sharp and will still be my usual set up. My travel lens lineup has been paired down to the 24-105,70-200v2 and 500mm with two 1.4TCs and a 2xTCv3 with the new 600 to replace the 500mm eventually. This set works great for me on a 1Ds3 body and 5D2 backup. In Kenya I kept the zoom with 1.4TC on the 5D2 and the 500mm with 1.4TC on my 1Ds3. In Rwanda for the gorillas I used only the 70-200 with the 1.4TC. I was very pleased with those combinations. I am getting the 600 rather than the new 500 because I do have the TC on my 500 98% of the time. That is my experience anyway.